You probably know the rest of that question. If a tree falls in the forest and nobody’s around to hear it, does it make a sound?
It was mentioned on the radio as I was driving back from a birthday party at my daughter’s house in Tacoma. We’d just finished a fantastic little party—a delicious lunch cooked by one daughter and way too much cake bought by the other daughter. I was full, comfortably full, keeping up with the traffic on I-5 and half-listening to the radio.
On Sunday afternoons the local NPR station airs Radiolab, a program/podcast that, according to the hosts, “asks deep questions.” Just the thing to listen to on a busy highway! That afternoon they were discussing the origin of the universe and the Big Bang Theory. Yes, I guess that qualifies as being a “deep question.”
I’m a fiction writer, though, not a physicist, so my primary attention was on the freeway. Until, that is, they started talking about the falling tree in the forest. It’s a fun question, and easy. Right? Even if nobody’s around to hear the tree fall, there are still sound waves. So why were they talking about this question in the middle of their discussion about the origin of the universe, a discussion that had veered off into the even less comprehensible subject (to me) of quantum physics?
Well, it seems that the answer to the tree-falling question depends on your definition of “sound.” Do you define it according to simple science or are you talking about philosophy? And then there’s the added complication of quantum physics. Einstein and his fellow physicist, Abraham Pais, argued about this very question.
Pais contended that “existence in the absence of the observer is at best conjecture that can neither be proven nor disproven.” I suppose that makes sense.
Way back in the 18th century, George Berkeley, an Irish bishop and philosopher, boldly stated that “To be is to be perceived.” The lonely tree in the forest did make a sound, though, he believed, because it was heard by God.
I’m neither a scientist or a philosopher or theologian, but as a writer and a former painter, I love the idea of the importance of perception. It just makes sense to me that the world around us should be seen and heard, sniffed and tasted. People should be seen and heard and touched.
Do we add something to a person or thing when we pay attention to it? I don’t know, but it seems wrong to pass up the opportunity. It’s a shame to stay inside with the blinds closed and miss the sunset or the rainbow, to ignore the flower that blooms for a single day or the babbling creek.
One of the hosts on Radiolab quoted from the bible, Genesis 1:31 I think it was: “God saw all that he had made, and it was very good.” The point he was making was that maybe creation isn’t finished until it’s observed and appreciated.
Nicki, your post is almost a continuation of the lovely family party – a conversation of philosophy encompassing the universe, life, family, and nature! The falling tree in a forest discussion is one my husband and I have at times and I now have new ideas to bring along! Perception is key to so much in life and I’m reminded of the Eckart Tolle quote:
‘When you recognise the sacredness, the beauty, the incredible stillness and dignity in which a flower or a tree exists, you add something to the flower or the tree. Through your recognition, your awareness, nature comes to know itself. It comes to know its own beauty and sacredness through you.’
It’s so interesting, Annika, that you and your husband have discussed the falling tree in the forest. Your Eckhart Tolle quote is perfect.
It’s funny. I remember hearing this question for the first time as a child and my mind being blown! Something to really try to get your head around. I like how you can argue both sides, and there doesn’t have to be a “right” or “wrong” perception.
We’re here to experience the world, whether we pay attention to it or not. xo
I do have a tendency to want to see both sides. Even if I have a favorite side, it as least helps to understand where the other guy is coming from. I’m not a radical.
Do we add something to a person or thing when we pay attention to it?
I’d say yes we do, but the trick is to remember to intentionally pay attention to more good people and things than not good people and things. In truth, with everyone flitting around social media yelling *look at me, look at me* it’s sometimes difficult for me to decide who/what is good. Too much noise, not enough signal.
Yes! If we’re going to pay attention to something or someone, it’s better to choose good people and things. And then it’s up to us to choose who they are.
“It’s a shame to stay inside with the blinds closed and miss the sunset or the rainbow, to ignore the flower that blooms for a single day or the babbling creek.” ~> True . . . and Not True
How many people “miss the moment” as they run from activity to activity due to FOMO . . . that fear of missing out? How many people lose track of their breath as they snap selfie after selfie?
No matter what we pay attention to, there is something else that we must (of necessity) ignore. We cannot be everywhere at the same time. Some trees must fall without our observing them.
Our internal GPS is the best guidance system we have to steer us in the right direction at the right time ~> Here. Now. Breathe.
So glad you had a nice gathering in Tacoma and something to ponder on the ride home. 😀
Fear of missing out strikes me as the attitude of someone who is fearful and lacking self-confidence. We don’t all have to see and do everything. In fact, we can’t. We have to make our own choices about how to live and what to see and do. As you said, we need to let our “internal guidance system … steer us in the right direction at the right time.” But when a rainbow appears outside my window, I do feel that it would be a shame not to take a moment to notice it and appreciate its beauty. But that’s just me.
Speaking of selfies reminds me of a short sightseeing trip in a small van my daughter and I took in Fiji. It was years ago, before selfies were a thing. The driver stopped at a view spot, and we all got out. It struck me as strange that the Japanese teens on the outing hopped out and lined up in front of the view to have their picture taken and then hurried back into the van without ever looking at the view. Instagram wasn’t released until probably 20 years later. If it had been available, they certainly would have posted that photo.
Sounds like you and I are on the same page, Nicki ~> if I notice a rainbow or a bird twilling outside my window or lightning lighting up the sky, I stop to let it register with me too. Nature nurtures.
And laugh out loud at the teens snapping themselves in front of the view without first stopping to admire it! Selfies and instagram were created for them.
It’s a thought-provoking scenario and yet…I always think this question reveals the fundamental narcissism of humans. Of course a falling tree makes a sound (or as you say, sound waves). If it’s in a forest, plenty of other creatures would hear it.
Why does a human (with hearing) have to be there for it to count?
I was thinking of that too, our human-centered understanding of everything and the way we use anthropomorphism to explain animal behavior. It’s very tempting sometimes. I do like the idea of the world being seen and appreciated, whether it needs us to perceive it or not. And maybe just maybe the observer does have some effect on the observed reality as those quantum physics experiments I mentioned in my reply to The Misadventures of Widowhood seem to show. Strange.
Thanks for getting the brain in gear this morning Nicki! Very thought provoking!
Hi Maureen. As authors, being alert to what’s going on around us is the first step to writing a great story.
What a lovely short essay!!
Thanks for a Sunday morning read that is positive.
Thanks, Judith. And a lovely, breezy Sunday morning it is, just a soft, warm breeze rustling the trees and playing in my wind chimes.
In the same vein, why is the world beautiful – on the chance it might be perceived. Emerson’s “Rhodora, on Being Asked, Whence Is the Flower” wonders at the rhododendron
“… in the woods,
Spreading its leafless blooms in a damp nook,
To please the desert and the sluggish brook.”
“Rhodora! if the sages ask thee why
This charm is wasted on the earth and sky,
Tell them, dear, that, if eyes were made for seeing,
Then beauty is its own excuse for Being.”
That’s a perfect poem for the tree-falling-in-the-woods question. I think the quote we often hear is “… beauty is its own excuse for Being.” It’s interesting that he capitalizes Being, which might mean he’s talking about existence or it might be punctuation rules from that era. His analogy in the last two lines probably wouldn’t totally convince the sages who ask why the rhododendron’s “charm is wasted on the earth and sky.” Still, it’s a beautiful poem.
For reasoning, I prefer your first line: The world is “beautiful–on the chance it might be perceived.” Is that your own?
Fascinating the Einstein once debated the falling tree in the forest question. I’ve always been in the camp that believes one doesn’t need to hear it fall to know it would have made a sound when it does. Guess I wasn’t thinking deep enough.
Great post, Nicki.
One of my daughters, who majored in physics, told me about the experiments that have shown the effect observation has on reality. It’s weird, but I guess it’s true. Here’s a quote from an article from Science Daily, 1998. “One of the most bizarre premises of quantum theory, which has long fascinated philosophers and physicists alike, states that by the very act of watching, the observer affects the observed reality.” Here’s the article: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/02/980227055013.htm
Certainly deep, thought-provoking, questions
You can be assured, Derrick, that the flowers that bloom in your garden are seen and appreciated by many people.
What a lovely post, Nicki, complete with beautiful photos. Being intentionally present in the moment is something I struggle with. But I see the value of doing so. Also asking the deep questions–I’m nodding my head as I ponder this. I ask myself why I allow the frenetic pace of life to pull me in different directions? Do I fear being alone with my thoughts? If so why?
It’s strange. I think most of us were much more at home with our thoughts in years past than we are now. I used to take quiet walks–maybe not thinking so much as just being and observing. Now I’m getting used to listening to a podcast. I don’t think it’s fear exactly. It’s more like a greediness to hear something more, something new. If it’s not a podcast, it’s TV, a book, our phone, our laptop. Maybe that’s just the way things are now. Because of my background in sketching, painting and even photography I do have the habit of noticing things. I’m glad for that.
Oh that must’ve been an interesting discussion to listen to Nicki. Our current selfie culture is that if there’s no picture it didn’t happen, so the lack of witness negating it sits uncomfortably with me, but I imagine I could come up with various answers and positions on this one on different days, depending how I’m feeling about myself, my place in the world, and the world itself.
It’s true. The selfie culture goes several steps further, beyond observing and appreciating to sharing everything. And being seen. I’ve read complaints by older women that “Now I seem to be invisible.” It’s not something that bothers me, but everyone does like to be seen. Even Chinese hermits and Western monks often resort to writing poetry. And everyone likes to share what they love. But this whole obsession with wanting to be seen by the largest number of people and sharing everything has gone a bit too far I think.